Curse

Legendary Battousai · Jul 23, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

The Problem: From the start of the Double Factions Event weekend, there has been a conciderably increase in the number of Warrior Monks in Random Arena using Mending, Healing Hands or other skills horrible for PvP. These builds only prolong games due to the fact that they deal very limited damage and have abilities in only "tanking" which is a PvE concept that exploits the stupidity of computerized opponenets knowing that they will attack targets with high armor and self heals.

The Cause: Common misconceptions about PvP that have been spread around in the PvE realm makes the common PvE'r believe that self preservation is the number one goal in PvP thus giving PvE players self satisfaction in the fact that they are the last one alive every game.

The Solution: There are many ways to try to fix this ever increasing problem. Here is a simple list of a few ways I have seen it done.

1. Rage: Bite off the Wammo's head by calling him a noob, yelling at him, and laughing at him.
End Result: Possible confusion for the Wammo on not knowing what he has done or satisfaction in the fact that he is pissing people off. Little chance of convincing him that the W/Mo, and any variation of it is a horrible build for PvP.

2. Educated Discussion: Have a discussion with the Wammo about why the build is horrible. This includes being polite and asking him to change his ways, also explaining why other builds are conciderably better.
End Result: The Wammo might rage because he is stubborn about his ways and will have no end result, but in some cases, the message MIGHT get through and he will change, provided that he has another, better build to switch to that you suggested to him. Usually will not work because most W/Mos are extremely stupid in the first place.

3. Demonstration: One on One the paladin with a warrior (not using deadly riposite type of builds) and show him that your build is clearly better than his, explaining why in the process. Requires patience and the ability to be polite.
End Result: The hard part is convincing him to 1v1, but if you successfully show him hes wrong, it has a high chance of making him change builds.

4. Rage Quit: Leave the game as soon as you see a W/Mo, or wait till he casts mending, and call the spell out calling him a noob and leave the game.
End Result: This method usually resolves the damage created by the W/Mo by shortening game length, making the W/Mo unfun to play and possibly allows him to try different non-Wammo builds. Successful in making a point, but less successful in making him learn.

So basically by trying these 4 solutions, we might be able to work together in reducing the number of W/Mos that are infesting the Random Arena and lengthening games to an unfun level. Also, if you are friends with anyone who plays W/Mos, try convincing him that other builds are better.

Such a build would be:
(Skills on the right of the // are for players that only have proph, or would like one over the other)

Skills:
Sever Artery
Gash
Sun and Moon Slash // Galrath Slash
Dragon Slash // Charge
Shock
Res Sig
Tiger's Fury // Frenzy
Heal Signet

Attributes:
Swordsmanship: 12+3+1 (16)
Strength: 9+1 (10)
Tactics: 9+1 (10)

Armor: Swordsmanship Helmet, Gladiator Chestpiece, Leggings and Boots, Stoneskin Gauntlets.

So please, help reduce the emerging plauge of the Wammo noobs!

SaucE · Jul 23, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

You do kow that not all W/Mo use Mending and Healing Hands...

CagedinSanity · Jul 23, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

So you're solution on decreasing wammos is just yelling "noob" and leaving? Or pounding on him in a condescending manner? That might work, in about fourteen years.
I've seen plenty of wammos in PvP and they work. If they don't someone doesn't know how to wammo properly.

Faer · Jul 23, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Let's run a simulation!

-> Johnny buys a new account because he wants more slots, or extra storage.

-> Johnny wants to PvP but he doesn't have anything unlocked, so he has to sift through the premade builds for something that works.

-> Johnny sees the Paladin and thinks for a moment, "Well they aren't loved much but they do work fairly well in Random, and that's all I need right now!"

-> Johnny creates a Paladin and procedes to enter Random Arena matches.

-> Johnny, an experienced player, is constantly insulted for his choice of premades. People ragequit when they see him activate Mending, destroying Johnny's chances of making any faction at all and progressing to the next arenas with better builds.

I'm sure I could go on, but I'll refrain. There's a lot of W/Mo hate in Guild Wars, especially on fansites such as this. But that does not make all W/Mo idiots as you imply. You have successfully made a post that flames hundreds of users, in a way that seems civil and intelligent. Plus, being a total and complete jackass to a person doesn't tend to encourage them to improve or do what you'd like them to do, but that's what you suggest people do to anyone entering RA with Mending (or the profession combination W/Mo at all, from the looks of things).

By the way, thanks for being a slave to the metagame. But your Shock won't save you if I ever see you in the Arenas.

Bravo...

Legendary Battousai · Jul 23, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaucE

You do kow that not all W/Mo use Mending and Healing Hands...

even if they dont, they usually have someone worth, for instance: Purge Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

So you're solution on decreasing wammos is just yelling "noob" and leaving? Or pounding on him in a condescending manner? That might work, in about fourteen years.
I've seen plenty of wammos in PvP and they work. If they don't someone doesn't know how to wammo properly.

I challenge you to beat the build I posted with a prebuild Paladin. They dont work as well as the build posted. The fact that they work doesnt mean how well they work, they are usually horrible and make the game horribly slow and pointless. Or for that matter, any W/Mo without using skills like Gladiator's Defence, Riposite, Deadly Riposite and actually win within 5 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaith Faer

Let's run a simulation!

-> Johnny buys a new account because he wants more slots, or extra storage.

-> Johnny wants to PvP but he doesn't have anything unlocked, so he has to sift through the premade builds for something that works.

-> Johnny sees the Paladin and thinks for a moment, "Well they aren't loved much but they do work fairly well in Random, and that's all I need right now!"

-> Johnny creates a Paladin and procedes to enter Random Arena matches.

-> Johnny, an experienced player, is constantly insulted for his choice of premades. People ragequit when they see him activate Mending, destroying Johnny's chances of making any faction at all and progressing to the next arenas with better builds.

I'm sure I could go on, but I'll refrain. There's a lot of W/Mo hate in Guild Wars, especially on fansites such as this. But that does not make all W/Mo idiots as you imply. You have successfully made a post that flames hundreds of users, in a way that seems civil and intelligent. Plus, being a total and complete jackass to a person doesn't tend to encourage them to improve or do what you'd like them to do, but that's what you suggest people do to anyone entering RA with Mending (or the profession combination W/Mo at all, from the looks of things).

By the way, thanks for being a slave to the metagame. But your Shock won't save you if I ever see you in the Arenas.

Bravo...

Johnny should PvE until he has enough skills to bring a viable, useful build to Random Arena and should not try to get faction through the use of Paladins. If Johnny needs to PvP that badly, he can always login to the account he already has. Also, the the Solutions I would suggest using would be 2-4, not 1. But rage quit does help in reducing the ammount of wasted time in guild wars.

Olfin Bedwere · Jul 23, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

5.Shut-up: and let the person who paid $50 for the game play the way he damn well wants.

kvndoom · Jul 23, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

The be-all, end-all solution:

Make Healing Hands target other ally. Of course, then it's just a watered down Healing Seed, but i suppose it could be buffed in other ways to keep elite status.

The reason you see so much of it is because in RA you can play for a long time without seeing any enchant removal, and in those cases you ARE almost invincible. Even if you can do no damage whatsoever (req 7 swords FTW!!!), you can survive till the end and there's always the option of running away for 2 hours until the other team gives up. As one idiot said when I was in such a situation, "I have all day." (we did kill the fool though, but it took 12 minutes)

One of the main reasons you see such piss-poor PVE builds in arenas is that PVE really doesn't teach what is necessary to succeed in PVP. You could beat half of Prophecies solo as a wammo, so why wouldn't people think they could go into arenas and be unstoppable too? When I see a fire ele in TA, I roll my eyes. Meteor Shower, yeee-haw. 5 seconds to cast a spell that I just walk away from.

And Mending is addictive. I'm serious, it's like a freaking drug. I've seen wammos stop what they're doing to recast it if it gets removed. Let their target walk away to do as they please. Interrupt it and they'll stand there and wait until they can try to cast it again. They will die standing in place casting Mending on themselves, because that +3 regen is all they know. The spell should be renamed "Linus' Blanket." You can't fix that without therapy, and I mean that quite seriously. Their only goal is to stay alive, which is why they don't bother with rez. Screw your teammates, that's a waste of a skill slot they could use for more defense / healing.

It would be nice to see the Paladin replaced with more useful builds like Shock/Axe, but the option is always there to create your own toon, so meh.

I should add that the Paladin build really needs to drop Resurrect and put in rez sig. Anet had to have been on teh crakc when they put that in.

Shadowfox1125 · Jul 23, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olfin Bedwere

5.Shut-up: and let the person who paid $50 for the game play the way he damn well wants.

Amen. Deal with it; they have their right to play however they want to play. They paid the same amount of money that you did for the game, so just buzz off. The only thing I get out of reading the original post is that he perceives all W/Mo as stubborn and stupid. What a pessimist.

aB- · Jul 23, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

The Problem: From the start of the Double Factions Event weekend, there has been a conciderably increase in the number of Warrior Monks in Random Arena using Mending, Healing Hands or other skills horrible for PvP.

Welcome to the world of Random Arenas. Anything and everything goes. If you are tired of these "noobs" then you should play a more organized form of PvP.

Ristaron · Jul 23, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Just point out to them that mending is better cast on the party healer/squishy caster, and don't put him on the defensive so that he'll call YOU an idiot and continue on his merry, disillusioned way.
This is especially effective if you're another warrior on his team.

Or, there's always the solution that you can bribe ANet to remove the stupid template altogether.

Legendary Battousai · Jul 23, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

I paid 50 dollars for the game too, why should I let someone waste my time with horrible time-wasting builds? So instead of sitting around being pissed, I am trying to do something about it and maybe inspire more people to not play with W/Mos and reduce the ammount of them.

Legendary Battousai · Jul 23, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Just point out to them that mending is better cast on the party healer/squishy caster, and don't put him on the defensive so that he'll call YOU an idiot and continue on his merry, disillusioned way.
This is especially effective if you're another warrior on his team.

Or, there's always the solution that you can bribe ANet to remove the stupid template altogether.

*Agrees with the second statement*

But mending is worthless, even if casted on a soft target, it is not needed in the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

Welcome to the world of Random Arenas. Anything and everything goes. If you are tired of these "noobs" then you should play a more organized form of PvP.

So does that mean that I am not allowed to play random arena and have fun because someone else wants to play horrible builds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olfin Bedwere

5.Shut-up: and let the person who paid $50 for the game play the way he damn well wants.

I paid 50 dollars for the game too, why should I let someone waste my time with horrible time-wasting builds? So instead of sitting around being pissed, I am trying to do something about it and maybe inspire more people to not play with W/Mos and reduce the ammount of them.

Faer · Jul 23, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Double-Posting ftl!

So you justify trying to force other people to play the game your way with the fact that you spent money on the game too? I smell a hint of hypocracy...

By the way... Maybe Johnny doesn't like PvE.

Aisius · Jul 23, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

The only problem I have with mending warriors is the ones that cast their mending on other players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

I paid 50 dollars for the game too, why should I let someone waste my time with horrible time-wasting builds? So instead of sitting around being pissed, I am trying to do something about it and maybe inspire more people to not play with W/Mos and reduce the ammount of them.

I don't think posting this in the warrior forums is going to make alot of difference to how newbie warrior/ monks play in RA. I think you'd be better off writting a guide or something explaining how to maximize wins in RA and maybe in that touch on some of the builds which you think are less effective.

Master Fuhon · Jul 23, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

The Problem: From the start of the Double Factions Event weekend, there has been a conciderably increase in the number of Warrior Monks in Random Arena using Mending, Healing Hands or other skills horrible for PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

One on One the paladin with a warrior (not using deadly riposite type of builds) and show him that your build is clearly better than his, explaining why in the process. Requires patience and the ability to be polite.

Factions BWE was great before it became like regular PvP where people could coordinate attacks... gave me the chance to bring the Wammo out in full effect to prove how superior he could be. The problem with the premade is the self healing isn't adequate since it comes as a maintained enchant and a high recharge spell that people can see when you cast on yourself. I didn't twink so this was all I fought with:

Uber BWE Wammo Build (no rez signet because of respawns)
1. Sprint
2. Healing Breeze
3. Healing Light {e}
4. Sever Artery
5. Gash
6. Sun and Moon Slash
7. Silverwing Slash
8. Distracting Blow
Gear: 80 AL +20 physical, minor sword + strength, customized 15-22 sword w/ no mods, 16 AL shield with no mods, minor vigor (510 health, 20 energy)

I was against creating some garbage Riposte/Auspicious Parry build, becoming some goofy hex casting Warrior, or using defensive stances. Also everyone was pretty much monkless so the battles were fun. Anything that hits a warrior outside of a coordinated spike is degen, so Breeze pwns all self heals for its short cast. Healing Light has a synergy with Breeze that allows you to cast it twice if they still think they can kill you. It also held up pretty well alone as a straight heal. Distracting Blow completely destroyed those Heal-Signet-in-your-face and predictable-adrenaline-spike sorry excuses for warriors. It wasn't any earth shattering PvP tactics, but simply making due with what skills you were given and a monkless atmosphere. I only did a few alliance battles because these were once again dominated by organized teams, but a single wammo could be no greater than the team (won 2/3).

All the things a W/Mo did during BWE
1) Tanked a Tiger's Fury Eviscerate and Final Thrust/Dragon Slash Warrior at the same time
2) Interrupted numerous adrenal spikes to survive(Distracting Blow got them both in above scenario) and their heal sigs
3) Outdueled a Silver Armor Earth Ele tank with Healing Light as self heal
4) Killed a mesmer and two npc rangers through Empathy
5) Suicide charged minion masters to take them out
6) Took on up to three horrible assassins at one time before any of them learned how to play
7) Could clear out the 3 ranger posts in Jade Quarry most of the time
8) Could solo the Commander/Priest posts where the Turtles spawned, distracting self heals, allowing 1/2 of mine to get interrupted
9) Ran Amber and cleared out NPCs guarding mines while tanking human players
10) Healed Gunther and killed the small force that was attacking him to get the doors rebuilt
11) PvE tanked horrible PUG builds to get to these places
12) To make things fun, every time I solo'ed a post or slaughtered my foes in combat I would let out a Wammo battle roar.

The Warrior/Monk is a marvel to behold, which unfortunately has already been lost to history. My Random Arenas hero was a W/Mo (before factions) who once tanked 3 other warriors in one fight, and then ran around from a team of 4 long enough to get them to rage quit. He also carried a rez signet. And this was all part of the same 10 game winning streak, using the same superior build. If only everyone could have seen such greatness we would all be believers...

Joking aside, Warrior/Monk is a very strong, self-sufficient build if made properly. It just doesn't have a place in organized PvP anymore. Premade sucks because of Mending and Restore Life.

Poison Ivy · Jul 23, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

The Wammo might be on the other team aswell

Thus making this thread entirely bullcrap.

You might aswell make a thread educating Wammos that the build scks (But Wammos don't read Guru )

Frost · Jul 23, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

So you're solution on decreasing wammos is just yelling "noob" and leaving? Or pounding on him in a condescending manner? That might work, in about fourteen years.
I've seen plenty of wammos in PvP and they work. If they don't someone doesn't know how to wammo properly.

The only warmo that work is one that is rank 6+. Otherwise they suck big time without themselves knowing.

Shadowfox1125 · Jul 23, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

If you dislike this and want to change this, then the next time you see a stupid, stubborn, Healing Hands W/Mo on the opposite team pity him and don't take advantage of him. In other words, don't kill him.

hm.. who's Im a Paladin..?

Apple · Jul 23, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

All w/mos should just become Endure Pain/Defy Pain infusers, THEN you'd start getting annoyed.

Zui · Jul 23, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frost

The only warmo that work is one that is rank 6+. Otherwise they suck big time without themselves knowing.

Rank has absolutly nothing to do with skill. It is a measure of grind; Nothing more. You can reach any rank by winning random 1 pointers in UW while running henchway with 3 randomly invited players, assuming you have enough time.

Please never post unless you actualy understand what you're talking about. Thanks.